MON PM: Colne Valley MP Kali Mounford opens up expenses

May 18 2009 By Andrew Jackson

Labour’s Gordon Prentice (Pendle), one of the signatories of the motion of no confidence, asked whether he was "right in thinking that it will be debated tomorrow and voted upon?"

Mr Martin said "this is not a point of order" but was interrupted by Mr Prentice who insisted "oh yes it is".

The Speaker continued: "These are matters for debate on an appropriate motion."

There was confusion over the procedures that would be followed on Mr Carswell’s motion.

Mr Carswell said: "Members on all side have now tabled a substantive motion calling for a vote of no confidence in you.

"When will Members be allowed to choose a new speaker with the moral authority to clean up Westminster and the legitimacy to lift this House out of the mire?"

The Speaker initially said Mr Carswell’s motion was an Early Day Motion and therefore unlikely to be debated, telling the Tory: "Please give me credit for having some experience in the chair".

But following a series of interventions from MPs, he said the motion would be listed in the "remaining orders" which could only be proceeded with if it became a substantive motion.

In response to Labour’s David Winnick (Walsall N), Mr Martin refused to say whether he would step down before the next general election.

Mr Winnick, who clashed with the Speaker in the Commons last week, said: ``There is great public anger outside which undoubtedly has harmed the reputation of this House.

"We all bear responsibility, I take my share of responsibility like every other Honourable Member.

"But can I put this to you, and I’m not associated with the motion, Sir, would you bear in mind that it would be very useful to the reputation of this House - and I say this with reluctance, but I say it all the same - if you gave some indication of your own intention to retire.

"Your early retirement, Sir, would help the reputation of the House."

Mr Martin pointed out that the veteran MP had served "under more speakers than I have" and would know "that’s not a subject for today".

Liberal Democrat frontbencher David Heath sympathised with Mr Martin's "impossible situation'' but said his statement had come too late.

He said: "I have a great deal of personal sympathy for the impossible situation that you find yourself in.

"But I have to say, the statement you have made, had it been made a few weeks or months’ ago would have been extremely welcome.

"But I have very grave doubts, given the appalling situation we find ourselves in, this midden of the House’s own making, that any action taken by Members of this House will actually restore the trust that we need."

The Commons should "accept unequivocally" Sir Christopher’s recommendations, he added.

Mr Martin said he could not give any assurance that the proposals would be accepted by the House - it was for MPs to decide.

Sir Christopher will not report until the autumn, so "steps have to be taken within this House".

Mr Heath continued that it was important to remove "the remaining barriers to transparency".

He said: "Those Honourable and Right Honourable Members who put us into this position by resisting reform cannot possibly be the right people to lead us out."

Mr Martin said: "Anything about transparency can be on the agenda at the meeting within 48 hours."

This could then lead to resolutions for MPs to vote on.

Veteran Tory Sir Patrick Cormack (S Staffordshire) said the current situation was as serious as the crisis which led to Neville Chamberlain's ousting as prime minister after the failure of British efforts to liberate Norway in 1940 during the Second World War.

Chamberlain faced a substantial rebellion on a motion which was effectively treated as a vote of no confidence in his premiership.

Sir Patrick said: "The times that we are living in are unprecedented as far as Parliament is concerned.

"What is at stake is the institution of Parliament and its integrity.

"Could I just say that I very much hope you will take account of the fact that there is profound concern, voiced in this motion that is to go down tomorrow.

"Could I ask you to bear in mind that the condition of the House today is rather like the condition of the country at the time of the Norway debate.

"Could you reflect on that?"

The Speaker did not respond to Sir Patrick.